HAMK Design Factory

Jali 

Hello everybody. Welcome to another HAMK Design Factory podcast, in this podcast we’re going to discuss on interdisciplinary collaboration in HAMK Design Factory I’m Jali Närhi. 

Jari 

And I’m Jari Jussila. 

Jali 

So, Jari, what is the difference between multidisciplinary and interdisciplinary collaboration? 

Jari 

Well, that’s a central topic in HAMK Design Factory. Since we are all about interdisciplinary collaboration, it’s perhaps easier to explain when starting with unidisciplinary collaboration, which is just one discipline doing its own thing. And then when you have multidisciplinary collaboration, then you have at least two disciplines working together. But actually, by definition, these two disciplines create the contribution separately and then put them together in the end.  

So, instead of working as joint teams, they work independently and then combine their individual results into something, and that is jointly together. Whereas interdisciplinary collaboration happens always in intense collaboration within between the disciplines and they work in the same teams, so they learn from each others and collaborate continuously together to produce a joint result. So, it’s more let’s say it’s more intense. 

Jali 

Ok. Can you give some examples of this in practice? 

Jari 

Well, yes. For example, if we think about engineering programs and business programs working together in multidisciplinary way, this could be that the engineers for example, design a robot cell. And then the business students calculate the profitability or the cost benefit analysis of that robot cell. And in the end, they both present their findings on the project. And then you get contribution from both of these disciplines. 

If we would do this in an interdisciplinary way, they would actually work together on the same team for the duration of the whole project, and this means that they exchange knowledge all the time in the project. They learn about each other’s disciplines. They learn about what is possible, what is not possible, and this kind of discipline-based techniques and methods become more familiar to both of these disciplines. 

Jali 

OK. So doesn’t that like mean. So, for example engineering student could help the business students to calculate, for example, the profitability of the of the cell? 

Jari 

Yes it can, and it’s also you could think about this also in that way that the business people might not be familiar what is really possible for the robot cell? What is kind of a solution that is technically feasible and what kind of things are necessary to put in the calculation, but when you have the engineers together in the same team, they can make sure that you have all of the right components for example, there. And you have the right things to paste the calculation on and that you learned for example, calculate something that is like technically not possible to do. 

Jali 

OK, so what does this kind of topic means that for the students who are participating in Design Factory projects? 

Jari 

Yeah. So, when they joined this kind of Design Factory project working inter disciplinary way, it means that they have to work together, they have to start understanding the other discipline as well. So, when they start doing things together, they previously might not have any like joint experience from the different field and now they are just learning to work with another discipline, they start to learn about that context and it might be also what happens in this kind of collaboration is that the methods they choose might come from either these two disciplines, or it might come from a totally different discipline when they figure out what is the like best way to solve a problem. Or what is the best method to use in particular situation, so it means that in in Design Factory projects you are not anymore tied up in for example the learning goals that you have for one particular degree program or the study structure, but it’s kind of encourages you to think outside of the box and think what are the best ways to do something. 

Jali 

Does that like in a sense require from the students more like work in a sense that you need to learn something completely new or is there like in a way that the other students could help the others to learn in a like a faster way? Or what is the like the situation in this kind? 

Jari 

Yeah. So, I would say that. Typically, what happens is that when the students start working together in an interdisciplinary team, it can be that, some of them have more experience or something. It might be that they have already worked in some company doing these things with a certain method. It might be because they have this as a hobby and they know about some new tool or method what might suit the project and then when the students discuss together how they could solve the problem, then they start finding out that who is the best teacher. 

So it can be that the best teacher in this case is another student and it might be that even the teachers do not have such knowledge of the tools or methods than some student that has already practiced it. So that is usually the case that what is basically required that you have an open mind and you’re willing to listen to other people and think together what might be the best way to go forward. 

Jali 

OK. And how would this show in the final solution of the student team? 

Jari 

Yeah. Well, my experience is that when you have interdisciplinary teams, the solutions are normally more innovative. They might be a little more detailed and consider some topics that would have not been possible if you have only a single discipline. To give some examples, is that if you’re an engineer like I am, we typically focus on feasibility to make something work. If you’re a designer, you would think more how something is desirable from the user point of view. You would design it in a way that the user finds it attractive, for example. And if you’re a business student, for example then you are well aware of the business side, the viability of the ideas, and you can come up with better business predictions about that solution, for example. You might be able to develop a more refined business model than the engineers could like separately. And then if you are for example, a student in sustainability, you might bring in some aspects of how this solution is actually better for the environment or the people. And in this way the solutions gain in the kind of refinement in some of these dimensions of design, that is actually quite challenging to do with just one discipline. 

Jali 

Yeah. So, when we are now just only talking about the students, how does this like interdisciplinary require from the teachers itself? 

Jari 

Well, yes, I can certainly talk about my own experiences. So well. When you begin with a new discipline that you are unfamiliar with, you might feel that OK, you don’t actually know what are the theories, the methods and tools in this other discipline and you have sort of like a knowledge gap between your discipline and the other discipline you’re working with. And of course this requires that you’re willing to listen, willing to learn from the other teachers. 

And I think gradually you actually start learning also the tools and methods and the theories from the other discipline and you start to expand your own expertise area, not just anymore to your own discipline, but also you maybe take some parts of the other discipline. And at least the next time it makes your communication easier when you have some more knowledge of the other discipline and you can more easily like get along with people when you a little bit understand their context as well. 

Jali 

OK, so like you get this kind of feeling that you are forever learning from the others or you’re getting always new information from the others, not just that you are reading a book, but you’re just getting this kind of a communication with the others and you will get a little bit of new information from there and there and there and there. And then you can. It helps you to like use that kind of information later on different type of topics that you get in this kind of interdisciplinary space of collaboration. 

Jari 

Yeah, I totally agree. So, I think. That everyone is a learner in Design Factory project, no matter if you’re the teacher, a facilitator in that role, or if you’re a student, or even if you are the company representative, I think they all learn something new while working in this way. And that learning can come from unexpected like ways. So sometimes it’s the students that are teaching the teachers. Sometimes it’s the company persons that are like introducing some new tool or method that’s very like appropriate for the project. Sometimes it might be some user that has a very good idea to try out in the project. So, in the beginning you cannot actually know like, where does the like killer idea or the best like knowledge come from? So, it’s up to the people into the project to figure out and learn together. 

Jali 

OK. So then like, how have you felt this kind of a interdisciplinary collaboration in your work? 

Jari 

Yes, I think well, the first thing that comes up to my mind is that every day is different. So, you always learn something new, you get to learn about different perspectives and viewpoints to some topic that otherwise you might be familiar with. It and then I think, when working in this interdisciplinary setting and with new types of companies and organizations you always pick up something domain specific. 

So gradually every new project introduces you to some new domain. New, perhaps sector that you previously might not have any experiences and for me that is also like inspiring. Because I know that in this kind of collaboration, I can always learn something new and find something that I didn’t know before. So that that’s something that it kind of increases the motivation of working in this way. 

Jali 

Yeah. How would you like sum this whole thing up? We have this picture of this process to becoming the interdisciplinary collaboration and how would you tell about the like the benefits of this whole thing and also a little bit about the challenges? 

Jari 

Yeah. So, I think that when we start from the very end of this unidisciplinary way of working, it usually happens in a way that you learn some specific method, tool or theory that is particular for that discipline. And then when you come to this multidisciplinary working style where you actually have people from other disciplines joining you. What you get is actually when they present their findings and their contributions on something, you get new perspectives. And you, you might realize that. Ohh, I never realized that people need to do this or that that is very nice way to do something. But you necessarily don’t know or learn how to do it yourself.  

And that happens when you actually move into this kind of interdisciplinary mode. Where you are a joint team and then you have to actually share your knowledge between the others and teach others. So, when you are a student in that kind of setting, the benefits are actually coming, from multiple sites. So, it comes from the students, from the other disciplines. It comes also from the teachers from different disciplines. So, the teachers might also represent a different discipline that the student has. And it also comes from the companies. 

So, to give an example that if you have company that is in healthcare for example, and you have engineers, business persons and designers that have never worked in a hospital setting. So that context then can bring a new benefit, a new understanding on how to apply either your design, your business, or engineering skills, for example. And there I think comes the benefit that you’re not anymore separated in individual silos, but you actually work together and expand your knowledge and point of view. And I think this is kind of like, in the beginning it might be frustrating or new, maybe a little bit stressful, but when you get to know new people, know different viewpoints. Then you actually can quite easily like reflect on what new things it brought you that you wouldn’t have otherwise the opportunity to learn. 

And therefore, I really recommend this for students to try out this kind of interdisciplinary project, but also for teachers, because for teachers it’s a great learning opportunity as well. And of course, in HAMK Design Factory, we also believe that the companies can benefit more when we join in different expertise areas from different disciplines and perhaps, we can provide something that they didn’t have access or understanding before. So at least this kind of new knowledge that comes out when putting different people from different backgrounds working together. 

Jali 

OK. And like when you like think about it you get this kind of a yeah, there’s a challenge in like when you’re communicating with different people from different backgrounds with different degrees, but that also is a more like a opportunity to learn, it’s a really good opportunity to learn from the others and maybe learn to communicate with different types of peoples.  

And also, you get this kind of a benefits of thing that these people are people that you know so you don’t have any like. Any background information of the people that you’ll need to be like stressed. Oh, this is my friend. I cannot say this and this and this. You’re more freely to say things. You’re freely to say what you feel like and then that that that is like the benefits in a communication sense. But also in the challenge in a way that you have people from different backgrounds. 

Jari 

Yeah, and you might say that. This is a safe environment to practice this while you’re still studying in some school. Whereas if you don’t do it inside the school or while your studies, definitely you will do it when you get a job and go to a workplace you have to work with different people. So, now it’s just you can practice that already before you kind of have graduated. 

Jali 

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for this brief introduction to this interdisciplinary topic. 

Jali 

So welcome, Anka and Markku. I’m Jali. I work as a project coordinator here in HAMK Design Factory. Also, I do a lot of work related to visual design, graphic design, video graphing, photographing. But also, I’m part of a PdP course that we have in HAMK Design Factory. Could you Markku, quickly also introduce yourself? 

Markku 

Thank you Jali. My name is Markku Mikkonen. I work here as our Senior Lecturer / Technical Specialist here in HAMK Design Factory. I teach just like you in the PdP course, and also, I teach in the DF workshops, different skill learning opportunities. And sometimes I do some research into skill learning and other topics. 

Anka 

OK, hi. My name is Anka and I’m a marketing trainer here in the Design Factory, but I have been doing all kinds of things related to graphic design, helping out the staff members with different projects and social media, for example. 

Jali 

Today is kind of our one of our favourite topics where we’re going to discuss about assumptions. I really want to quickly ask Markku, like, how would you out of your head try to define the assumption? 

Markku 

Hmm. well, assumptions can be in a very nutshell, be described as a method of making a decision or a basis that is not for certain based on facts. So, it is based on what an individual already knows. But there is no proof to support that decision or decision making, for example. I think that would be the best way to very briefly describe what is assumptions or what is it that when somebody assumes. 

Anka 

I feel like the most important part of that to understand is that there’s no proof. And that’s why it’s something that leads to miscommunication many of the times, most of the times. 

Jali 

So then, like, how do we try to or how is like commonly then like done or happened in our scenarios for example? Most of the time I hear like people are saying like they’re assuming something, because they felt like it’s pretty easier to assume that rather than check the facts. 

Markku 

Well, we use assumptions I would say almost on a daily basis. It is very dependent on the occasion. We might do assumptions on just normal life decisions that what will I buy from the store because I assume that I have everything else in order. Or when we’re doing something work related, we might make decisions based on assumptions to move forward with our tasks. So, for example, if we’re doing product development, so developing a solution for a certain user case group. 

We might make initial assumptions what our users are like, or what type of needs our users would have, and then we would based on that assumption make a solution. But once again, if you’re that if that is the final method before creating the final solution or final product, you’re taking a big leap of faith that it will actually then work. You’re assuming that it’s a good idea. 

Anka 

Yeah, I think assumptions and assuming things is a really common thing people do. And I think most of the people don’t realize it. Probably no one realizes it when they assume something. It’s I feel like, if we start thinking about the things we have done in the past, one day in the past one hour. We are definitely going to find some things that we did because we had an assumption. And I think as long as someone is not consciously thinking about that, we don’t realize those things. So, it’s definitely important to understand what are assumptions. 

Markku 

Hmm. And I mean like adding to that it’s like. You could maybe. Follow her up. Like continuing like is assuming or making assumptions a bad thing. It’s probably a bit of an ethical thing, so if you’re making an assumption or a decision based on assumption which will lead to an outcome that only affects you. I wouldn’t say it’s a bad thing. Technically, if you are willing to learn from that experience. 

But then it becomes more risk effective if you make a decision based on assumption and it affects others and you’re not willing to take responsibility of that outcome afterwards. So, it’s a lot about thinking, how will you handle that outcome that comes with it, which like are you willing to take responsibility, if your assumption wasn’t based on facts, or if the result wasn’t correct. 

Jali 

Yeah. So then like? Like many times, it’s like just like easy things like up at home, for example, you just take somebody else’s glass from the table because you assume that it’s dirty or nobody isn’t needed anymore. But it can be like, really easily just tackled in a way that you just start asking the questions or you start making sure that, hey, I got this mug, do you still need it this anymore or is there something else you want to do with it? Or can I just put it to the dishwashing machine or something and then you are already, like, solving the challenge that you didn’t create any like grinding or bad things happening because you assumed that the facts because you did the assumption based on, so the person was also affected by the your assumption in that case. 

Markku 

Yeah. And another example for that could be also said, if you’re doing some type of skill learning. So, let’s say you’re in an environment that allows you to learn. Well, 3D printing for example. It’s very common in schools nowadays to get the opportunity to learn 3D printers. So, if you as a student assume that you can just walk into the location where the 3D printers are located and just watch some videos and use them and that’s OK. 

There is a risk that you’re skipping extra rules set by the university or the department or the organization who owns those printers. For example, the printers are only allowed to be used for educational purposes, or the printers are only allowed to be used within the certain time frame. So those then actually can lead to bigger risk outcomes, if something goes wrong. So, for example if you use them incorrectly, then it’s not anymore like for example insurances that are willing to cover for you and then you have to take the responsibility in this scenario. So yes, if you’re we are making a final decision. And not recognizing the potential risks that come with it. So, you’re assuming that it will all be OK. I can get away with this, then yes, that is wrong. So, it is highly recommended that. To get out of that type of behaviour, you should always request for details and specifications so we can make assumptions, but it is also our role to make sure those assumptions are facts, and the only way to do that is fact checking. 

Anka 

Yeah. And I think it’s also pretty important to mention how important the choice of words we use are when it comes to assumptions when it comes to having a conversation with someone, because I think most assumptions are being made when the communication is not clear. So it’s really important that when we are having a convo we add as many details as we can and it’s probably impossible to give every single detail. 

So that we answer every single possible question or assumption with that. But on the other hand, it’s also important for the other person to ask, ask every question because I feel like we are really used to not asking questions and just keeping them because it’s more comfortable or because we just think we know what the other person would think. So, we assume what they would say or what they would answer. So, I think it’s important that we understand that asking all those questions are really important in order to get away from assumptions. 

Markku 

Yeah. And it’s like when it comes to just the basics of things like how to do just communication with other people, like having if you’re on a date with somebody. Or if you’re hanging out with friends, or if you’re speaking with a sponsor for an idea that you’re developing. Everybody is coming from a different background. Everybody has different understandings. Everybody has different levels of vocabulary in their catalogue if you want to say. So, it’s during these scenarios, it’s extremely important that if somebody says something and you maybe get triggered or you get a misunderstanding. 

Before you make a decision on how to continue with that conversation or that collaboration with the other person, you should first check what they actually meant, so if they said something, for example that triggers you or got you mad before getting mad, you should always check like, did you actually mean this or did you just happen to use maybe a set of words that I would assume means something negative. So, to avoid future conflicts, it is extremely beneficial and important to maintain like fact checking during constructive communication and not automatically assume what a certain person meant with what they said or presented even. 

Anka 

Yeah. And I think it’s also something that we said a lot that by assuming something we basically have to automatically accept the consequences. So, if the consequences are that we get hurt because we assume something or that we get into an argument, or we get into a not so nice situation, we basically have to accept those and handle them the best way we can, because we got into those situations by assuming. So, this comes with taking responsibility for assuming and accepting the consequences. 

Jali 

Like I’m always like, wondering, like from what level like we have been taught about like to start assuming. Maybe from like when we were kids, our parents were discussing about something or they were assuming and then suddenly we start to also do it ourselves or we just couldn’t get that kind of type of a level of instructions, let’s say, how to communicate, how to move on, how to like, think about the consequences of assuming in the end. 

And because, like many times, people just do it because it’s easier. You don’t need to think about, you don’t need to move. Do a lot of brain work to do that thing. You could just assume and then you can continue. Or then are they just super lucky in their lives in a way that they don’t get like consequences out of it? Or why do they then continue? How it’s like was led to the fact that they are just doing it all the time in the end. 

Markku 

I think the learning factor like when we’re kids, we’re not really being taught these type of communication factors like assuming itself. So, it’s something we learn by watching our elders. We learn what we see and hear in society. And like you explained, it’s like. If we don’t get caught in that scenario or in that outcome after assuming, then we move on. We don’t really think about it that much. And usually when that happens, it usually the assumption has been made for a topic that doesn’t really have a big consequence to it, if it’s a big mistake. Or if there does happen something of a consequence level and but it only happens to us, well, we learn from it and we move on. But it becomes a whole different thing when there are other people or other parties affected with that outcome of the assumption. 

So, and usually we recognize those through communication conflict or debates. So, like how we understand certain topics or how was a task fulfilled through the misunderstanding. And this just boils down to the fact that we need to be more willing to recognize our decisions that we’ve made. And then if we recognize that they have been made based on no proof at all, so they are uncertain with their outcome and if they might affect others around us. We should be always willing to check up, like, what’s the assumption a fact or if it already has assaulted into a conflict or an outcome, or a negative experience. We should be willing to take that as a learning experience and recognized that the fault was actually in us. 

But once again, it’s when it comes to communication. It’s not only that we have to know on be able to learn good amount of words. So, we’re able to present everything very well, but we also have to be willing to listen. So, it’s not just about being able to talk constructively, but it’s also about how you can listen and analyse the discussion and then if something triggers you, you have to be willing to check because if you’re not going to check, then the mistake might as well also be from your side also. So, it’s an equal effort. 

Anka 

Yeah, I think assuming probably comes from not feeling comfortable enough in every single situation to ask what’s actually on your mind. And with time because we got so used to it and because let’s be honest, most of the assumptions we make don’t have a serious consequence. So that’s why we are not so conscious about them because it happens. We learn from it, but it’s not so significant that we would get stuck on it. 

So maybe that’s why it’s something that becomes so regular in our everyday life. For example, someone has a child. It’s so important to provide a comfortable space for open communication from the time their kids from the time they learn how to speak basically. Because with that comfortable environment for communication, they also provide them the options to ask all the questions they need. So, they don’t get so used to assuming. And obviously, there’s probably no one in the world who doesn’t assume. Even people who are super comfortable with these conversations and asking questions, but it’s really important in my opinion to encourage people and to provide them this this safe space basically. For asking questions when you’re having conversations and it also includes for example, if there are consequences, you’re not going to crash out or you’re not going to scream at the other person. And it needs, it requires this kind of mindset that I assume something I accept the consequences.